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  Channel logs for #lix on Sunday the 31st of December 2017


Logs for #lix on QuakeNet

Sunday the 31st of December 2017





[last]
Times and dates are in Central European Time (GMT + 1)


[00:00:10] <geoo> lemmingsfan: have you gone by a different nickname in the past, or is this your first time around here?
[00:00:11] <Flopsy> we should be arranging Lix multiplayer sessions on there again after the new year celebrations are done
[00:00:25] <lemmingsfan> nice! approx what timezones are everybody?
[00:00:33] <lemmingsfan> (I'm in Central Time, USA)
[00:00:41] <geoo> also, I think SimonN would be excited to have someone trying to compile on MacOS binaries
[00:00:45] <Flopsy> they were good fun and we got a lot of newer players in the game in the most recent sessions
[00:01:01] <geoo> I think we usually played 18 UTC?
[00:01:09] <Flopsy> yeah we do
[00:01:10] <geoo> or 19 UTC, something like that
[00:01:16] <Flopsy> it is 18 UTC
[00:01:20] <lemmingsfan> @geoo This is my first time around here, so no previous nickname.
[00:01:33] <Flopsy> so that would be earlier in the afternoon for lemmingsfan
[00:01:45] <lemmingsfan> nice!
[00:02:07] <Flopsy> what GMT is central time? it is 23:02 here right now
[00:02:10] <lemmingsfan> and yeah, I'd love to help compile on mac. I'd be interested to learn some D too
[00:02:15] <Flopsy> and I'm on GMT
[00:02:21] <lemmingsfan> ah wow that's handy :-)
[00:03:00] <lemmingsfan> lessee, with daylight savings time it's -0600 for Central Standard Time, -0500 for Central Daylight Time I believe
[00:03:02] <Flopsy> I main on NeoLemmix mainly but I do play Lix as well
[00:03:05] <geoo> GMT is the same as UTC
[00:03:36] <Flopsy> so about 12 midday if we played Lix at our usual time
[00:03:42] <lemmingsfan> nice!
[00:03:58] <lemmingsfan> @Flopsy does NeoLemmix support multiplayer?
[00:04:03] <Flopsy> we usually play for 4-5 hours when we do play
[00:04:06] <lemmingsfan> haha wow
[00:04:15] <Flopsy> if a lot of people show up
[00:04:17] <lemmingsfan> well, I'm on school break!
[00:04:33] <geoo> NeoLemmix doesn't have multiplayer
[00:04:38] <lemmingsfan> ah ok
[00:04:43] <Flopsy> NeoLemmix doesn't support multiplayer, it's just the standard Lemmings experience
[00:04:47] <lemmingsfan> cool
[00:04:54] <geoo> but lots of singleplayer content for both Lix and NeoLemmix
[00:04:59] <Flopsy> with added functionality
[00:05:13] <lemmingsfan> nice! yeah, the time travel support is really great
[00:05:16] <lemmingsfan> and the whole game is snappy
[00:05:24] <lemmingsfan> prolly cause it's written in D :^)
[00:05:53] <geoo> time travel, you mean savestates/skip back in time/fast forward/etc?
[00:06:08] <lemmingsfan> yes, except I didn't know about savestates :-)
[00:06:35] <geoo> there's the little disk button, and of course also a configurable hotkey for everything
[00:06:41] <lemmingsfan> ahhh nice
[00:06:54] <lemmingsfan> btw do people use handles that can be traced to their real identities?
[00:07:02] <lemmingsfan> or, do people here mostly use random new handles?
[00:07:04] <Flopsy> lemmingsfan, we usually play Lix on Saturdays anyway, unless Nessy decides on a different day because he's interested in getting involved
[00:07:16] <Flopsy> so school shouldn't even stop you really
[00:07:41] <Flopsy> a lot of people on here work during the week :P
[00:07:48] <lemmingsfan> ah nice!
[00:07:58] <lemmingsfan> so I guess I just missed you guys playing today then? :-(
[00:08:09] <geoo> nope, didn't play today
[00:08:14] <lemmingsfan> ah ok
[00:08:21] <Flopsy> we don't play every week, usually every 2-3 weeks but we're on Xmas break at the moment
[00:08:24] <geoo> usually we post on the forum a few days before when we plan to
[00:08:28] <lemmingsfan> nice
[00:08:37] <Flopsy> the last time we played was Dec 9th
[00:08:51] <lemmingsfan> ah great, due time to play again soon then! :0)
[00:08:58] <Flopsy> hoping to start again in January :)
[00:09:12] <lemmingsfan> btw how long has Lemmings Forums been going?
[00:09:13] <Flopsy> people are starting to come back to the forums a bit now I've noticed
[00:09:17] <lemmingsfan> /active
[00:09:26] <lemmingsfan> lol gmta
[00:09:27] <Flopsy> since 2004 I believe
[00:09:28] <geoo> as for handles, I guess it varies a lot. There's full names like kieranmillar, half names like SimonN or Akseli, and handles without resemblance to the real name
[00:09:50] <Flopsy> my Youtube channel, I broadcast my real name. I'm not shy about it
[00:10:09] <lemmingsfan> kewl.
[00:10:23] <geoo> 2004, yeah. There were forums around before that, but I think most of that stuff is lost
[00:10:31] <lemmingsfan> aww
[00:10:50] <lemmingsfan> So how long have you guys been playing Lemmings, and are any of you guys programmers?
[00:10:52] <geoo> We're lucky we got the posts all the way back to 2004 even though we migrated servers a couple of times since then
[00:11:00] <lemmingsfan> haha
[00:11:11] <Flopsy> yeah, if you like standard Lemmings, then NeoLemmix is a great engine to use. There's tons of content for it
[00:11:42] <Flopsy> I played Lemmings since 1991, I had it on release day when I was 5
[00:11:48] <geoo> I joined the forum in 2004 or 2005 I think. Not a programmer per se, but I do bits and pieces of programming here and there (python, M68k asm, C++)
[00:11:51] <Flopsy> on the Amiga :P
[00:12:04] <Flopsy> I've only been a forum member since 2015 though
[00:12:06] <lemmingsfan> @Flopsy wow that's hardcore :^)
[00:12:21] <Flopsy> I have no programming experience
[00:12:36] <lemmingsfan> I also started on the Amiga (with one of the X-mas Lemmings that could run from a HD!) but I've only been playing since like 8 or something
[00:12:39] <Flopsy> except the amount of computer knowledge require to make Lemmings levels
[00:12:44] <geoo> I remember seeing Lemmings as a kid in 96 or so, but didn't really play it until shortly before joining the forum
[00:13:27] <Flopsy> I came across the forums way before 2015 of course I just never joined until then
[00:13:39] <lemmingsfan> And I found lemmings like 12 years after it was released
[00:13:52] <Flopsy> we've had an explosion of new members in the last 2 years I've noticed
[00:13:57] <lemmingsfan> @geoo M68x asm sounds pretty hard core to me :-P
[00:14:28] <Flopsy> lots of newer members who immediately make level packs
[00:14:38] <geoo> as far as asm goes, M68k is as nice as it gets
[00:14:44] <Flopsy> just shows how easy it is to learn and do
[00:15:06] <lemmingsfan> Nice yeah!
[00:15:40] <lemmingsfan> M68k - Did you ever own a Palm Pilot per chance? :-)
[00:16:45] <geoo> nope, this processor was used on quite a few things back in the day including Amiga, Atari and Sega Genesis (for which I've programmed)
[00:17:00] <lemmingsfan> that's pretty cool
[00:17:04] <lemmingsfan> Did you program Amigas?
[00:17:22] <lemmingsfan> (I did a bit in AmigaBASIC, and a teensy bit in Lattice C, but never ASM)
[00:17:34] <geoo> nope
[00:17:49] <lemmingsfan> But you did code some for Sega Genesis, eh?
[00:17:55] <Flopsy> wow, you are experienced in programming lemmingsfan, that kind of experience is really valuable on here
[00:18:01] <geoo> I've never had a Genesis, only ever ran my code on emulators
[00:18:12] <lemmingsfan> ahh I see
[00:18:26] <lemmingsfan> @Flopsy I can say buzzwords and stuff :-P
[00:18:41] <Flopsy> you talk a big game :P
[00:18:55] <lemmingsfan> haha I've been going to school for Computer Science too
[00:19:21] <geoo> school as in university?
[00:19:29] <lemmingsfan> Acutally, programming can be pretty fun!
[00:19:33] <lemmingsfan> Yep
[00:19:44] <lemmingsfan> So I saw this thread: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3389.0
[00:19:50] <lemmingsfan> I'd also like to +1 Python
[00:19:56] <geoo> programming is cool as you can create pretty much anything, but you don't need any physical assets
[00:20:08] <lemmingsfan> 10/10
[00:20:23] <lemmingsfan> That captures it pretty well
[00:20:39] *** mobius1 ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[00:20:46] <Flopsy> hey mobius1
[00:20:54] <lemmingsfan> Plus the feeling change from "THIS STUPID CODE DOESN'T WORK" to "ARRGH! IT WAS A MISSING SEMICOLON!"
[00:21:13] <mobius1> hey
[00:21:38] <mobius1> lemmingsfan: were you reading my mind just now?? :P
[00:21:50] <lemmingsfan> lol see, it's a common thing! :-)
[00:22:07] <lemmingsfan> wait, are you coding something that made you feel that way just now?
[00:22:31] <Akseli> Happy 31st of December, geoo.
[00:22:49] <geoo> oh right, thanks Akseli :P
[00:23:34] <lemmingsfan> I wish you could see scrollback on IRC like you can in Discord or Slack
[00:24:18] <Flopsy> lemmingsfan: I'm asking around about when we could have another Lix session and it's looking likely that we may play again on 13th January after early indications
[00:24:30] <lemmingsfan> cool!
[00:24:53] <Flopsy> the channel logs link is at the top of the page in the topic title lemmingsfan
[00:24:57] <mobius1> :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytpJdnlu9ug&list=PLUl4u3cNGP63WbdFxL8giv4yhgdMGaZNA
[00:25:04] <Flopsy> you can see every message there
[00:26:34] <lemmingsfan> ah nice
[00:27:25] <lemmingsfan> I better be careful what I say then! :-)
[00:28:52] <Flopsy> not everyone checks every message anyway
[00:29:02] <lemmingsfan> yeah, but it'll be on the internet forevah! :-P
[00:30:14] <lemmingsfan> but Google is having a hard time finding it when I tested some strings
[00:30:43] <lemmingsfan> so that's nice. I'm really a German Shepherd. See, on the internet, no one knows you're really a dog :-P
[00:30:59] * lemmingsfan is hungry for some dogfood
[00:31:05] <Flopsy> never even thought of searching for my stuff on google :S
[00:31:51] <mobius1> Flopsy: I use internet search for stuff on forums rather than the forum search; it works better! O_o
[00:32:16] <mobius1> Iknow this isn't what you were talking about but forum searches are awful; i have no idea why. Pretty sure I made a rant about this once
[00:32:41] <lemmingsfan> Google pays a lot of people to make Google good :-)
[00:33:01] <lemmingsfan> Forum software is... less money-full or something I guess
[00:35:56] <lemmingsfan> Well anyway, it was nice to meet you guys! I'm looking forward to playing multiplayer lemmings with you guys on Lix! I'll probably register a forum handle that's not "lemmingsfan" :-P
[00:36:24] <Flopsy> cool, nice talking to you too. Keep on popping in here :)
[00:37:27] <lemmingsfan> yeah, I should! I'll probably use the nick "spacetag" next time
[00:38:51] <geoo> yeah, stick around, SimonN should be around at some point soon
[00:39:20] <Flopsy> we also have a #neolemmix IRC as well, you can sign into both if you use a ,
[00:41:54] <lemmingsfan> A comma?
[00:42:28] *** lemmingsfan_ ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[00:42:28] <Flopsy> yeah
[00:42:38] <lemmingsfan_> Ah I see nice! https://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=#lix,neolemmix
[00:43:19] *** spacetag ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[00:44:34] *** Quits: lemmingsfan_ ([email protected]) (Signed off)
[00:44:39] *** Quits: lemmingsfan ([email protected]) (Signed off)
[00:51:54] *** Quits: kieranmillar ([email protected]) (Ping timeout)
[00:52:25] <mobius1> spacetag: are you learning to code?
[01:05:19] *** Quits: spacetag ([email protected]) (Signed off)
[01:05:40] *** spacetag_old ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[01:21:45] *** Quits: geoo ([email protected]) (Signed off)
[01:44:09] *** Animiral ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[02:08:46] *** Quits: IchoTolot ([email protected]) (Signed off)
[02:19:06] *** Quits: Akseli ([email protected]) (Signed off)
[02:32:50] *** SimonN ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[02:36:01] <SimonN> lix server down, I can't debug from here since I'm at a friend's and everything except http is blocked.
[02:36:47] <Flopsy> well we only found out it was down because spacetag_old was interested in playing and none of us could get on it :(
[02:37:02] *** ADmiralN ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[02:37:05] <mobius1> SimonN: if you're at friend's house; pay attention to your friend instead of IRC :P
[02:37:12] <SimonN> thanks for telling me still, will try
[02:37:36] <SimonN> mobius1: everybody else is sleeping, I can't sleep and got back up
[02:37:57] <mobius1> ah then it's okay :P
[02:42:20] *** Quits: Animiral ([email protected]) (Ping timeout)
[02:44:01] <SimonN> spacetag_old: hi, thanks for the interest in Lix! The server hasn't crashed in a long time, bad luck that it crashed exactly on the day when I can't fix it
[02:44:43] <Flopsy> spacetag was here about 30 mins ago
[02:44:53] <Flopsy> so don't know why there's no response
[02:45:04] <SimonN> I'm at a friend's and everything except http is blocked, can't log onto the machine. I should have it back up in 2 days
[02:46:47] <SimonN> yeah, it's fine. Flopsy, thanks for replying to him earlier then!
[02:48:58] <Flopsy> I did mention that we typically play Lix on Saturdays and we're planning to have one on 13th January now
[02:50:36] <SimonN> Flopsy: excellent, very smart to immediately schedule a session, I will try to make it
[02:51:11] <SimonN> reading the logs, so happy that spacetag_old (= lemmingsfan?) already found the forum and IRC and hung around
[02:52:22] <Flopsy> yes it's lemmingsfan as well
[02:52:28] <Flopsy> prefered spacetag
[02:56:45] <Flopsy> I would like to talk to Nessy about it before I announce it though because I know he wanted to be able to make one
[03:05:41] <spacetag_old> Hey I'm back!
[03:05:47] <spacetag_old> Got some supper
[03:06:20] <spacetag_old> @SimonN Thanks for making Lix! It is really nice! :-)
[03:06:44] <spacetag_old> I can't wait to play multiplayer with my cousin who is also a Lemmings fan! :-)
[03:08:20] *** Quits: ADmiralN ([email protected]) (Ping timeout)
[03:11:18] <Flopsy> spacetag_old: you need to take the @ out otherwise it doesn't alert people
[03:11:26] <Flopsy> SimonN ^^^^
[03:11:39] <spacetag_old> oh weird :-P that's like the opposite of most chat programs
[03:11:44] <spacetag_old> but hey, IRC has the seniority :-P
[03:11:53] <SimonN> spacetag_old: hi!
[03:11:56] <spacetag_old> Hello!
[03:12:11] <spacetag_old> I'm glad to be introduced to this wonderful new world of Modern Lemmings!
[03:12:31] <spacetag_old> I didn't even know it existed :-)
[03:12:37] <SimonN> thanks! yeah, sad that the server is down exactly today and I can't fix it, hope it's back in 2 days.
[03:12:53] <SimonN> re your mac compile issues: you can file an issue on github or tell me here what went wrong
[03:13:12] <spacetag_old> ah yes, thank you for reminding me
[03:13:49] <spacetag_old> also, btw, I think it's cool that you made the game CC0!
[03:14:06] *** spacetag ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[03:14:13] <SimonN> I had a Mac user compile it 1-2 years ago. Since then, I've begun relying in enet and probably use cutting-edge features of dmd (reference compiler)
[03:14:29] <spacetag> ah, that might be the issue yeah
[03:14:30] <SimonN> cc0, yes, it should be as little hassle as possible to preserve it :)
[03:14:49] <spacetag> nice! :-) And I love how zippy the UI is!
[03:14:56] <spacetag> (and keyboard controllable)
[03:15:03] <spacetag> Ok here's the compile bug: src/tile/tilelib.d(138,25): Error: AA key type TileGroupKey does not have 'bool opEquals(ref const TileGroupKey) const'
[03:15:13] <SimonN> other D compilers are LDC and GDC; if you ran into problems with those, I should probably look into it
[03:15:18] <spacetag> I tried HEAD~ and same error
[03:15:34] <spacetag> I was using dub
[03:16:17] <SimonN> I haven't touched TileGroupKey in a long time, it's probably leftover bug from not testing with different compilers for months
[03:16:45] <SimonN> dub is the build system, it calls a compiler (not sure if it tells you which it chose)
[03:17:02] <spacetag> it said Performing "debug" build using /Library/D/dmd/bin/dmd for x86_64.
[03:17:22] <SimonN> oh dmd, then it's strange that the build fails there. Excellent report though
[03:18:19] <SimonN> the UI, if it's usable, thanks thanks :)
[03:18:47] <spacetag> oh yeah, it's great! Now, I was on Windows; I hope it's really fast on my Mac too
[03:18:59] <spacetag> but maybe my Mac is slow :-/
[03:19:20] <Flopsy> you should get in the habit of reporting bugs with Lix on the forums as well, that way it's written in stone :)
[03:21:03] <spacetag> good idea
[03:21:34] <spacetag> So far I've mainly just had this one problem compiling on mac!
[03:22:02] <SimonN> spacetag: look at src/tile/group.d, line 158. There is the function that the compiler claims missing
[03:22:27] <SimonN> maybe change line 158 to exactly what the compiler wants
[03:22:38] <spacetag> bool opEquals(ref const typeof(this) rhs) const @safe pure nothrow
[03:22:49] <SimonN> yep
[03:23:24] <SimonN> maybe change to: bool opEquals(ref const TileGroupKey rhs) const
[03:25:02] <spacetag> hmm same error
[03:25:51] <SimonN> really weird
[03:26:41] <spacetag> If I comment out the whole function, it seems like the compiler is happy with that bug (then there's another seemingly unrelated bug...)
[03:26:49] <spacetag> (src/tile/phymap.d(259,66): Deprecation: integral promotion not done for ~n, use '-transition=intpromote' switch or ~cast(int)(n))
[03:27:13] <spacetag> I think I'm using dmd.2.078.0-beta.1
[03:27:16] <spacetag> maybe that's the problem
[03:27:16] <SimonN> wow interesting, this kind of warning is excellent
[03:27:25] <SimonN> oh yeah, you're using bleeding edge!
[03:27:32] <spacetag> ahhh
[03:27:44] <spacetag> shoulda looked more carefully before I downloaded
[03:28:18] <Flopsy> such advanced language which I don't understad
[03:28:23] <Flopsy> :P
[03:28:27] <SimonN> stable is dmd 2.077.1
[03:29:05] <SimonN> Flopsy: bleeding edge is version of program that is newer than stable and might have more bugs because it's so new
[03:29:20] <spacetag> @Flopsy The funny stuff is mostly copying what the D compiler outputted :P
[03:29:33] <spacetag> Sorry *Flopsy no @
[03:29:48] <Flopsy> it's ok, it's habit int it
[03:29:54] <Flopsy> it's just I won't get alerted
[03:31:17] <spacetag> @SimonN What do think about D? I'm interested in getting into Rust, and I think they might be similar?
[03:31:29] <SimonN> spacetag: there should not be any behavioral difference in Lix if we delete TileGroupKey.opEquals. If it pleases the compiler, delete the function.
[03:31:31] <spacetag> (trying to improve on C, but still have power
[03:33:18] <spacetag> nowww it compiles :-)
[03:33:25] <spacetag> Helps to have the right compiler verison
[03:33:28] <SimonN> spacetag: Rust is cool too, good choice. I lurk the D forums often, most complaints are that it compiles slowly and the borrow checker might be too restrictive. If you don't agree/can live with either, excellent language that does some things better than D (immutable by default, must annotate passing by ref with & at the call site)
[03:33:38] <Flopsy> SimonN knows his stuff :)
[03:34:14] <spacetag> ah ok, thanks!
[03:34:24] <spacetag> So, lix compiles, but does not run: dyld: Symbol not found: __al_mangled_main
[03:34:53] <SimonN> google this error, this is Mac-specific and I remember reading about it on the net
[03:35:12] <Flopsy> Lix can run on Mac SimonN?
[03:36:04] <SimonN> all Allegro code (because it does weird threading? Unsure why) must run through a wrapper function, and this linking error is an artifact of this main() wrapping
[03:36:24] <spacetag> hmm
[03:36:25] <SimonN> Flopsy: yeah, Lix should run on Mac because I chose only cross-platform libraries
[03:36:27] *** Quits: mobius1 ([email protected]) (Ping timeout)
[03:37:00] <spacetag> there is this forum thread: https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/615967
[03:37:13] <spacetag> but they're using C/C++ I think
[03:38:25] <SimonN> open dub.json, add "allegro_main", with quotes and comma to the list of libraries
[03:38:39] *** ADmiralN ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[03:38:53] <spacetag> It's already there :-/
[03:39:02] <SimonN> oh hm
[03:39:25] <spacetag> This means I have a good version of Allegro, right? allegro 4.0.1+5.2.0: target for configuration "no-libs" is up to date.
[03:40:31] <SimonN> that is the version of the bindings, they should be correct, yes (4.0.1 bindings bind to Allegro 5.2.x)
[03:41:29] <SimonN> dub fetches the bindings for you, you still have to install Allegro binaries (I assume you have them since the complaint is explicitly about __al_mangled_main, not anything else of allegro)
[03:41:50] <spacetag> yeah I think so]
[03:42:12] <spacetag> I `brew install allegro`d last night
[03:42:25] <SimonN> yep, that should work well
[03:43:08] <spacetag> mighta taken a while too; big dependencies?
[03:43:21] <SimonN> I really want to support Mac; I should learn the answer to this linking problem.
[03:43:23] <spacetag> (regardless, I think brew installed it correctly)
[03:43:33] <spacetag> There's this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37632819/main-function-not-found-when-running-allegro-5-on-osx
[03:43:37] <spacetag> Also for C
[03:43:40] <SimonN> yeah, A5 depends on PhysFS and many multimedia libs
[03:44:39] *** Quits: ADmiralN ([email protected]) (Ping timeout)
[03:45:06] <SimonN> strange answer, seems very specific to C and hard to guess what the D equivalent would be
[03:45:53] <spacetag> I got it to work :-P
[03:46:11] <Flopsy> is Lix working now spacetag ?
[03:46:31] <spacetag> Yep lol
[03:46:39] <Flopsy> excellent :)
[03:46:48] <spacetag> If you take *out* "allegro_main" from dub.json, then it works lol
[03:47:00] <Flopsy> I have videos of me playing the Lix single player on my channel as well
[03:47:05] <spacetag> nice!
[03:47:22] <spacetag> The first time I compiled, I also added "allegro", but I compiled --force without it, and that works too
[03:47:36] <SimonN> take out allegro_main :O wow
[03:47:53] <Flopsy> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXsuXbpwwJzFCPXpgesDyNhXOMhSAHS1T
[03:48:42] <Flopsy> SimonN is speechless, that's rare
[03:51:08] <spacetag> So... maybe move to "allegro_main" to libs-windows?
[03:51:35] <SimonN> congrats on getting it to work! I'll have to test on Linux and Windows whether allegro_main is necessary on each
[03:53:13] <spacetag> Thanks! You gave me half of the answer; I just needed to take the line out instead of putting it in! :-D
[03:53:27] <spacetag> I can test it on Windows if you like!
[03:53:32] <spacetag> wait maybe not
[03:53:47] <spacetag> do you have a windows compe?
[03:54:07] <SimonN> I build Windows versions with Windows DMD in Wine on Linux
[03:54:14] <spacetag> Also, I'm glad it works on my Mac!!! Lemmings 2.0 on my Laptop!!!!
[03:54:20] <spacetag> ahh nice!
[03:54:22] <SimonN> the resulting executables even run in Wine well, very happy
[03:54:30] <SimonN> cool :)
[03:54:50] <SimonN> I'll test the Windows build in 2-3 days back home on my main machine
[03:55:06] <spacetag> wow that's pretty cool. Good ol wine.
[03:55:22] <spacetag> Maybe I should switch to linux... #melancholy for Mac
[03:55:44] <spacetag> for some reason, the music doesn't play on Mac though
[03:55:45] <SimonN> Mac is still king for graphic design and professional video editing
[03:56:13] <spacetag> Mac is nice; but I think everything and even Lix seems not as snappy on my Mac :-/
[03:56:29] <SimonN> oh, the music isn't in the github repo. I have to point people who build from source to the music manually still
[03:56:32] <spacetag> I wonder if that's just because I'm comparing it to a faster Desktop, or what
[03:56:57] <spacetag> ahhh, right; I downloaded the Windows version as the binary release
[03:57:21] <SimonN> look at doc/build/package.txt, it should have a link to the music download
[03:57:51] <SimonN> music is recent addition, I haven't decided long-term management (didn't want to put ogg in version control because they're fat)
[03:58:43] <spacetag> ah yes good call!
[03:58:48] <SimonN> I should probably, if no music found, print in main menu the link to that download for now
[03:58:59] <spacetag> might be handy :-)
[03:59:15] <spacetag> or, can the build system pull from somewhere?
[03:59:25] <spacetag> maybe a separate git repo with the music?
[03:59:28] <Flopsy> spacetag: how did you come across Lix out of curiosity
[03:59:50] <spacetag> Good question! I found it last night
[04:00:31] <spacetag> maybe cause my cousin and I were talking about Lemmings
[04:00:39] <spacetag> and he mentioned multiplayer lemmings
[04:00:50] <Flopsy> and you thought it could exist somewhere on the internet :P?
[04:02:05] <Not-b67b> [LixD] SimonN opened issue #278: allegro_main: Don't link on Mac, test necessity on Windows and Linux - https://git.io/vbAum
[04:03:28] <SimonN> spacetag: build system fetch extra things: possible if I write shellscript, which is then nasty to make cross-platform, ..., hm, but thanks for the interesting idea
[04:03:59] <SimonN> cool that such googling for multiplayer Lemmings turns up Lix
[04:04:35] <spacetag> Looks like I googled "four player lemmings" :-)(
[04:06:47] <Not-b67b> [LixD] SimonN opened issue #279: Explain how to get music if no music found - https://git.io/vbAuB
[04:07:59] <spacetag> Fourth result! L++: Networked multiplayer Lemmings - Lemmings Forums
[04:08:06] <spacetag> https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1151.0
[04:09:25] <SimonN> that was the original announcement 8 years ago. Glad that it still produces hits. I've rewritten the post several times to point at the correct website and repository
[04:10:54] <SimonN> the game server shouldn't crash often, I've fixed a bug last month that crashed it. But I still don't auto-run the server, I have to ssh onto the server and start it manually
[04:11:30] <SimonN> it's probably a trivial task to watch every n seconds whether app is running, and, if not, run it
[04:12:35] <SimonN> of course, auto-restarting server is no substitute for fixing the bugs that crash it, I hope the log files will have something. But good uptime is an important feature of the culture
[04:12:40] <spacetag> I'm glad I found Lix and that you made it! :-) I may have tried to do WinUAE + Amiga Lemmings + Kaillera to do multi-player lemmings over network, but if it worked, it might have been laggy
[04:12:49] <spacetag> (a few years ago)
[04:13:54] <SimonN> yes, I've stuck with this for 11.5 years, has been a good time
[04:14:27] <spacetag> amazing! I must have come across L++ before, but not actually looked into enough maybe!
[04:14:29] <spacetag> But this is a lot cleaner--I'm curious to know how you handle the multiplayer stuff- is it just sending each players commands over the wire and playing them back?
[04:14:30] <SimonN> and I'm still surprised that nobody else has done it properly. There is Clones, but it doesn't feel like Lemmings
[04:14:43] <spacetag> yeah, yours has a good feel to it!
[04:15:04] <SimonN> thanks :)
[04:15:12] <spacetag> I wish I had known about it before; it's too bad it isn't advertised as well
[04:15:38] <spacetag> it's hard I guess with the Psygnosis (or Team 2?) trademarks/copyrights to call it Lemmings maybe?
[04:15:47] <SimonN> yeah, only commands are sent over the network. Physics are deterministic and when packets come in, physics roll back and recompute
[04:15:49] <spacetag> actually, what is the state of Lemmings IP?
[04:15:58] <SimonN> Sony sits on the Lemmings IP
[04:16:02] <spacetag> :-/
[04:16:10] <spacetag> ahhh interesting (re: networking)
[04:16:29] <spacetag> so you actually go back in time and replay some of the physics, and update the user's state?
[04:16:29] <Flopsy> Sony bought Psygnosis back in early 2000s
[04:16:43] <spacetag> There was that Lemmings Revolution for Windows
[04:16:48] <spacetag> and/or PSP
[04:17:10] <Flopsy> I thought Lemmings Touch in 2014 was a decent Sony Lemmings game
[04:17:14] <SimonN> there are two methods to combat the lag: recompute, and input lag. Input lag sucks and recompute is expensive to get right, but recompute is correct for Lemmings (Starcraft had input lag and it was OK for most commands)
[04:17:16] <Flopsy> but hardly anyone played it
[04:17:36] *** Quits: spacetag ([email protected]) (Read error: EOF from client)
[04:17:57] *** spacetag ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[04:17:58] <spacetag> whoops
[04:18:07] <SimonN> yes, I cache the entire land every n frames and thus keep a handful of old physics states
[04:19:02] <SimonN> this is very taxing on VRAM and we had people run out of VRAM before; I stop making these internal savestates when people are running low on VRAM but that will might dents in the recomputaton performance
[04:19:26] <SimonN> Clones was smarter, the Clones devs cut the land in 128x128 pixel chunks and saved only the chunks that changed
[04:19:28] <spacetag> wow, so Lix is deterministic? I guess that goes along with the whole replay-engine thingy :-)
[04:20:12] <SimonN> yes, Lix is 100 % deterministic, even the flinging from batters and exploders. It might depend on floating-point math (don't remember, I should check) but even that should be identical across platforms
[04:20:28] <SimonN> only the starting positions are shuffled
[04:21:53] <spacetag> wow. That's pretty cool!
[04:22:03] <spacetag> Does D make that easier?
[04:22:10] <Flopsy> you'll love Lix when you experience it with lots of players
[04:22:13] <Flopsy> it's mental
[04:22:36] <spacetag> haha I'm looking forward to it! :-) I watched part of an old multiplayer game you guys did!
[04:23:39] *** mobius1 ([email protected]) has joined #lix
[04:24:54] <SimonN> D is great, I'm happy I rewrote the entire thing in D, it was C++98 before that. C++ has certainly improved with C++11/14/17 but I've begun to like D much more
[04:26:09] <spacetag> I should take a look at the source code; I'm curious to see how it's done!
[04:26:21] <spacetag> Also, you made an entire Lemmings clone :-P what is your day job? :-)
[04:27:18] <SimonN> I'm finishing my PhD in math, but I would like to become software engineer for a living. Will have to see in 2018 how this turns out, I'm entirely self-taught
[04:27:43] <Flopsy> you're a genius SimonN, much better than my bachelor in Maths :)
[04:28:38] <spacetag> I like Math! I'm minoring in Math!
[04:28:53] <SimonN> Flopsy had a hard time getting a slot at university because they cut ruthlessly and accepted only the highest-ranked bachelors
[04:29:19] <spacetag> wow, that's harsh
[04:29:41] <spacetag> do you mean for Bachelor's? If so, congrats on getting in!
[04:30:36] <SimonN> cool, I feel I would have gone insane in any other subject because of dumb requirements, but all maths was nice. PhD was a grind and mine certainly won't be perfect grade, but I should finish it and move on :)
[04:31:26] <SimonN> I feel like I'm too weak to become professor in math, and then it's reasonable to not look for a postdoc position, which would be my alternate idea for the next years
[04:31:30] <Flopsy> my girlfriend has a Phd in Environmental Sciences
[04:32:24] <spacetag> wow that's crazy!
[04:32:53] <spacetag> SimonN Well I dunno about that :-P
[04:33:02] <spacetag> You're probably studying some crazy stuff right now
[04:33:23] <spacetag> I only got to Calc 3, Prob and Stats, and (CS-flavored) Discrete Math
[04:35:12] <SimonN> I delved into algebraic topology and the thesis is a mixture of algebraic topology and K-theory of C*-algebras (popular in functional analysis and mathematical physics)
[04:36:05] <spacetag> Yeah I'm guessing that's some pretty advanced stuff! :-P
[04:36:08] <SimonN> yeah, stuff that goes above what a Bachelor would learn, maybe one of the parts if he specializes
[04:36:30] <mobius1> SimonN: are you currently getting paid to teach at the uni? else how do you afford to live?
[04:36:52] <spacetag> It's funny how many math people like Lemmings :-)
[04:37:12] <SimonN> I got paid until end of 2017, I can push for a while without gettign money but will have to find a job in the next months
[04:37:56] <SimonN> yeah, we have a lot of mathematicians and programmers
[04:38:29] <SimonN> seems to be normal with old computer games, everybody is interested in programming
[04:39:32] <mobius1> these games are mostly emulated and programmers must do these things in their spare time as a hobby
[04:40:58] <spacetag> nice
[04:41:12] <spacetag> Well, programming really pays well at this time in history, so that's nice!
[04:41:30] <Flopsy> it's why I'm interested in learning it, I'm unemployed
[04:41:39] <mobius1> until the computers take over and we're forced to live in Zion :P
[04:41:41] <spacetag> I think you should be able to pick it up! :-)
[04:41:48] <spacetag> And I don't think you should have any trouble finding a job, SimonN :-)
[04:42:29] <spacetag> mobius1 haha hopefully I've got a few more years
[04:42:38] <spacetag> befpre the robots take over so I can make some money! :-P
[04:42:57] <spacetag> Flopsy, do you have a github?
[04:43:01] <SimonN> hah, enjoy uni, it's a cool time with exciting people
[04:43:09] <mobius1> I should really try to become a studio musician
[04:43:19] <mobius1> I'm afraid that that would make me lose my joy for music
[04:43:42] <mobius1> like some poeple say doing what you love as a job takes the fun out of it
[04:44:13] <mobius1> plus I'd need to move; and probably far; no places for a musician in my area
[04:44:25] <SimonN> I don't like the thesis work anymore though :P probably normal
[04:45:45] <mobius1> I can image; lots of people who are excited to learn something they like
[04:45:53] <SimonN> I don't mind answering people's programming questions, we had kieran with his L3 editor yesterday
[04:46:41] <spacetag> mobius1 yeah... I hope that doesn't happen for me with coding!
[04:46:45] <spacetag> but it could...
[04:47:08] <mobius1> always one builder short....
[04:47:28] <mobius1> u know; I lie, I think it's more because I'm afraid of taking the risk
[04:47:37] <SimonN> if you can make it in math and like it, by all means stick with it. Very prestigious and likely super flexible work hours
[04:47:39] <mobius1> I didn't lose joy for the current work I do
[04:49:00] <Flopsy> but what can you do with Maths SimonN
[04:49:49] <mobius1> I'm sure there are plenty of jobs; Insane Steve got a job with a math degree didn't he?
[04:49:53] <spacetag> You can.... teach Math! :-D
[04:50:00] <mobius1> didn't he study in statistics?
[04:50:02] <Flopsy> apart from teaching
[04:50:14] <mobius1> he became and actuary; or something like that
[04:50:35] <spacetag> Actually, it's great because it can stretch your brain, making you a good thinker, which is good for all higher level jobs right?
[04:50:46] <mobius1> I can't remember exactly but its a job anylyzing stats for who-knows-what; Clam does this as well
[04:51:02] <mobius1> spacetag you're very right about that :)
[04:51:28] <mobius1> Clam said he was analyzing stats for school districts or something of that nature I think
[04:51:49] <mobius1> maybe like for creating borders of maps and etc
[04:51:59] <spacetag> nice!
[04:52:01] <mobius1> I'm not explaining this very well; but maybe you get the idea
[04:52:17] <spacetag> If you're into Math and Computer Science, a nice job may be Data Science/Data Visualization
[04:52:25] <spacetag> and Machine Learning
[04:52:57] <mobius1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuary < that's definitely what IS studied for; Idk if he actually does exactly that now but it's what he wanted
[04:53:00] <spacetag> Some people with programming backgrounds can do basic coding, but may lack the Math background to be able to do those more advanced synergies of CS and Math
[04:53:22] <spacetag> (Data Science/Data Visualization, Machine Learning)
[04:55:38] <SimonN> Flopsy: I meant that if you're strong enough to stay in math research after uni, go for it
[04:56:01] <SimonN> the university will give you money without understanding what you do :)
[04:57:48] <SimonN> dataviz is fun, it's both art and science
[04:58:38] <Flopsy> yep my girlfriend was a doctor for a while
[04:59:59] <mobius1> SimonN: that sounds nice but why would they do that?
[05:00:19] <mobius1> it seems university's hand out money like it's candy
[05:05:09] <SimonN> mobius1: I don't know, but it's like that. I don't know why anybody would give me money for me doing math, but it has happened
[05:06:06] <SimonN> every once in a while some research group makes cultural breakthroughs, I haven't followed math culture too well but it is culturally well-accepted to fund this
[05:07:18] <mobius1> well math, especially stuff like Calculus is used in a huge number of feilds; from engineering to electrical and architecture, chemisty, the list goes on
[05:07:46] <mobius1> but I just found it odd that it seems a lot of the people I know or heard of that studied math in college don't get those jobs
[05:07:56] <mobius1> they just stay there as a professor or such
[05:08:15] <mobius1> well maybe that's not true; I mean there is Clam and IS that got jobs
[05:08:24] <mobius1> and one other real life friend of mine
[05:09:11] <mobius1> he studied electrical engineering and said he did some higher math, but not a lot
[05:09:16] <spacetag> being a professor/researcher is a job :-)
[05:09:31] <spacetag> with it's own perks/politics/etc
[05:09:42] <mobius1> thats true
[05:09:48] <spacetag> and I think a big reason we can do that in US is because of National Science Foundation that pays the bills :-)
[05:09:53] <spacetag> (at least for CS research)
[05:12:09] <mobius1> I've actually thought about getting into crime scene investigation;; because I'm good at noticing details and finding things like that
[05:12:33] <mobius1> but not real sure on that one...
[05:13:18] <spacetag> that skill is also good for hunting bugs in projects :-)
[05:13:46] <mobius1> I'm good at noticing details; not as good at fixing them :P
[05:14:47] <spacetag> hey that's half the battle! :-)
[05:15:33] <mobius1> I guess thats true
[05:17:59] <mobius1> off to bed; cya
[05:18:01] *** Quits: mobius1 ([email protected]) (Signed off)
[05:19:16] <SimonN> hunting bugs in lemmings engines is the real play, not solving levels in the lemmigns engines :P
[05:19:31] <SimonN> whoever writes the most thorough bug reports, wins
[05:26:28] <spacetag> :-) nice!
[05:27:01] <SimonN> DMA had good solvability in games, even without automated replay testing
[05:27:33] <SimonN> only Take 2's Lemmings Revolution had 2 incompleteable levels (or one was solvable with bug abuse, assign builder to oh-noer to save lem?)
[05:28:07] <Flopsy> Game Boy lemmings has one unsolvable level too
[05:28:14] <Flopsy> that was developed by Ocean
[05:28:45] <SimonN> that's sad
[05:29:01] <SimonN> Ocean is publisher though? Or also developing team?
[05:29:06] <Flopsy> it was their iteration of The Crossroads
[05:29:17] <Flopsy> and it was named "There must be more to life"
[05:29:27] <spacetag> wow
[05:29:30] <Flopsy> implying that you should stop playing the game :P
[05:29:49] <spacetag> haha! I did not like Lemmings for Gameboy Original. It was buggy
[05:30:04] <spacetag> like, I think there was a bit of lag, and you could assign a skill to a lemming that was already doing that skill
[05:30:12] <spacetag> wasting your skills
[05:30:34] <SimonN> I've never played it. It's not a sanctioned port, I think only Amiga, Dos, and Atari are developed simultaneously by DMA?]
[05:31:03] <SimonN> sanctioned, I mean, developed by DMA during the very first iteration
[05:31:24] <SimonN> L1 got ported a lot afterwards, it makes sense if some ports turn out bad
[05:31:54] <Flopsy> you could assign a lemming multiple blockers if you mashed the button before it became a blocker
[05:32:10] <spacetag> maybe that was it
[05:32:26] <Flopsy> the game boy lemmings worked on a grid formation, the lemming would only do skills in certain places
[05:32:43] <spacetag> There was also a Lemmings for Game Boy Color (or maybe I'm mixing them up)
[05:32:43] <Flopsy> when it reach a particular position in the grid
[05:32:52] <SimonN> the Jazz 1 release on Good Old Games had the almost-incompleteable Orbitus 2, you reach this level after maybe 1 or 1.5 hours of casual play
[05:32:52] <spacetag> weird...
[05:33:01] <Flopsy> there was, it was worse than the Game Boy original though
[05:33:09] <Flopsy> despite having Oh No more lemmings in it
[05:33:13] <spacetag> lol
[05:33:24] <spacetag> it's like, couldn't they do some user testing or something?
[05:33:24] <SimonN> the Orbitus 2 worked in Jazz 1.0 and both 1.2s, then broke in 1.3 and apparently nobody played through the release candidate in 23 years :P
[05:33:38] *** Quits: spacetag_old ([email protected]) (Signed off)
[05:33:38] <Flopsy> it was an america and japan only port though
[05:34:48] <SimonN> it's really sad how little testing some people do. But maybe they test, then change stuff at last minute and surely it can't break, right? Or when you work with several people, somebody mistakenly takes old version of something
[05:35:17] <Flopsy> some people don't even pre-release test their NeoLemmix level packs which I think is sad
[05:35:32] <spacetag> haha yeah that's annoying
[05:35:48] <spacetag> @SimonN haha yep, that's why automated testing like in Lix is good! :-)
[05:35:57] <spacetag> so it's cool that you have that!
[05:36:19] <SimonN> yeah, I require 100 % replay coverage (every level must have at least one solving replay, it's okay when others break on the same level)
[05:36:20] <Flopsy> automated testing?
[05:36:51] <SimonN> Lix has replay verifier, yeah, and I run it before every release
[05:38:16] <spacetag> @ Flopsy It's a program that has a script play all the levels and make sure they're beatable (right?)
[05:38:49] <spacetag> Which is like what good (but not all sadly lol) professional software engineers do when they are writing code
[05:38:52] <Flopsy> that's not possible surely?
[05:39:00] <spacetag> :-D
[05:39:15] <Flopsy> spacetag: just spoke to Nessy in #NeoLemmix and he's cool if we do Lix on 13th January
[05:39:29] <spacetag> nice, thanks!
[05:39:33] <spacetag> I'd love to join you guys!
[05:39:47] <SimonN> Saturday 13, I will very likely make it
[05:39:49] <Flopsy> so 13th January at 6pm UTC (GMT)
[05:40:00] <SimonN> 18:00 UTC is good
[05:40:11] <Flopsy> I'll make a forum topic about it too so as many people as possible know about it
[05:40:23] <Flopsy> and I'll ask everyone in IRC closer to the time
[05:40:31] <spacetag> Thank you for doing that!
[05:40:46] <Flopsy> I'm unsure if I'll be able to make it as of yet
[05:40:48] <spacetag> I'm looking forward to playing multiplayer with you guys!
[05:40:56] <spacetag> aww :-(
[05:41:07] <Flopsy> but I just wanted to set it up so you guys could play if I can't make it
[05:41:21] <SimonN> yep, excellent date
[05:41:23] <Flopsy> even if I can't make it I mean
[05:41:43] <Flopsy> besides it will be recorded by someone so I won't miss out
[05:42:07] <Flopsy> just everyone beat IchoTolot and those Black Lixes! :P
[05:44:27] <Flopsy> spacetag: usually in the IRC, there's a bot in here which will tell us about any forum posts made at the time at they are posted but the bot has not been working for a week now and the bot is currently signed out of chat
[05:44:35] <spacetag> @ Flopsy Simon was telling me about the replay coverage -- from what I understand, the game plays itself in a windowless mode, and verifies that all the levels pass with at least one replay "proof" script
[05:45:17] <spacetag> aww, sad bot :-P
[05:45:29] <spacetag> when will he be back? :-)
[05:45:35] <SimonN> yeah, the bot is offline. Maintainer is Mindless, hope he'll be back these days
[05:45:56] <spacetag> Hopefully his mind will be back too :-D
[05:45:58] <spacetag> jk
[05:46:37] <Flopsy> it kind of sucks because I'm overlooking forum posts because of it :(
[05:46:58] <spacetag> maybe you could make another bot! :-)
[05:46:58] <SimonN> hah yeah, we're used to sitting in IRC and merely reading the bot announcements
[05:47:42] <SimonN> the bot is (based on) loopybot, open-source Lua bot, I could probably run that on my server
[05:47:49] <Flopsy> and SimonN is supposed to be mod in here, it's unusual that he is a standard user
[05:48:28] <SimonN> I'm at a friend's and using the webchat. Proper IRC is blocked by his wireless lan (also ssh is blocked which is the reason I can't restart the server)
[05:48:32] <Flopsy> the #neolemmix IRC has no mod at the moment because he's taken leave from the forums
[05:48:41] <spacetag> re: ssh blocked ahhhh that explains it
[05:48:45] <spacetag> that's annoying
[05:48:51] <SimonN> Nepster is mod in the NL channel
[05:49:37] <SimonN> and since I don't have proper automation, control panel machine reset wouldn't restart the Lix server
[05:49:54] <spacetag> bummer :-(
[05:49:57] <SimonN> at least the website starts when the machine starts, lol
[05:50:19] <spacetag> what about a port 80 VPN?
[05:50:26] <spacetag> haha that's good
[05:50:40] <Flopsy> he is SimonN but he hardly signs in as a mod
[05:50:42] <SimonN> I haven't tried anything fancy, especially considering I'll be back home in 1-2 days
[05:51:22] <SimonN> we had almost no issues in either #lix or #nl, which is nice
[05:51:51] <SimonN> mod is important to have but luckily can take the absence for these days without issue
[05:56:33] <Flopsy> no, we never have unruly people. In fact that most unruly person we had I heard was namida who is the mod :P
[05:59:19] <SimonN> hah, what did he do?
[06:00:07] <Flopsy> I heard he was always getting banned off the forums many years ago and now he's the administrator :P
[06:01:00] <spacetag> lol
[06:01:26] <Flopsy> it's true though!
[06:01:38] <SimonN> geoo got banned on Lemmignsheaven because they wanted to give a mod position to their level contest winner. geoo was outsider on that board, entered for the contest and won
[06:02:02] <Flopsy> geoo is a god then....
[06:02:25] <SimonN> it was dumb from the outset to have such a prize, but well, this is the lore
[06:02:52] <SimonN> namida had a handful of nicknames, streetlight administrator 370 and variatons of this
[06:03:21] <SimonN> he's still far younger than I am. It makes sense if he was a little kid, early teens, when he joined forums and got banned
[06:04:33] <Flopsy> yes he was apparently
[06:04:49] <Flopsy> he's only 5 years younger than me and I'm 31
[06:05:42] <SimonN> I'm getting so old that meeting people I know at the supermarket has high chance to become highlight of the day
[06:06:30] <SimonN> maybe the internet is growing old with me. Or at least Lemmingsforums
[06:07:02] <Flopsy> there's a lot of older people on these forums and a lot of younger people as well
[06:07:29] <SimonN> if spacetag is minoring in math, then surely spacetag must be younger than Lemmings 1?
[06:07:59] <spacetag> I like running into people I know at the store! :-)
[06:08:03] <spacetag> Who is Lemmings 1?
[06:08:20] <SimonN> Lemmings 1 is the game released by DMA for Dos/Amiga/... in 1991
[06:11:39] <spacetag> oh haha the game duh :-)
[06:11:44] <spacetag> Yep, I'm younger than Lemmings 1
[06:13:34] <spacetag> I'm a 90s kid I guess, but I don't remember living the 90's culture a whole lot :-P
[06:13:48] <SimonN> great
[06:14:34] <SimonN> yeah, really happy that you joined IRC and pushed the build on Mac
[06:15:05] <Flopsy> to be honest, the same could be done with NeoLemmix as well
[06:15:17] <Flopsy> namida said it was possible to run NeoLemmix on Mac
[06:15:40] <SimonN> Lemmings is a niche interest, and it's scary to enter a possibly tightly-knit community where everybody must be well-versed in cultural lore
[06:16:19] <Flopsy> I don't understand that statement
[06:17:37] <SimonN> I'm happy that spacetag read the forums and joined IRC right after finding Lix. Lots of dedication
[06:18:05] <spacetag> I'm happy I found you guys!
[06:18:20] <Flopsy> I didn't even notice the IRC until a few months after i joined the forums
[06:18:46] <Flopsy> I came in here and though I stumbled into the staff room or something but then someone said it was ok to come in here
[06:19:58] <SimonN> in open-source, IRC and forum are normal to have, and it's encouraged to join culture early
[06:21:16] <SimonN> okay, I'll try to sleep again. Good night!
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[06:22:36] <spacetag> Thanks Simon!
[06:22:48] <spacetag> Ah I think I understand what Simon is saying now
[06:22:57] <Flopsy> thanks for stopping by spacetag, I'm going to head off too it's 5.20am here!
[06:23:05] <spacetag> It can be intimidating for a newcomer to join an established IRC/forum community
[06:23:40] <spacetag> (and IRC can be intimidating too lol; fortunately, I have already messed with IRC a teensy bit)
[06:23:55] <spacetag> Wow, that's late! :-P
[06:24:00] <spacetag> Thank you for being so welcoming Flopsy!
[06:24:29] <Flopsy> that's ok, I seem to have attracted a lot of people to the site recently with my NeoLemmix tutorial videos on my channel
[06:24:51] <Flopsy> I just like to be helpful
[06:24:59] <Flopsy> see you soon anyway :)
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[06:26:35] <spacetag> Have a good night!
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